Understood

Ep.9 | Managing poor behaviour, asking RUOK?, hospital reform, sleep tips, redefining masculinity, medication expectations

September 08, 2020 Mitch Wallis
Understood
Ep.9 | Managing poor behaviour, asking RUOK?, hospital reform, sleep tips, redefining masculinity, medication expectations
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Understood
Ep.9 | Managing poor behaviour, asking RUOK?, hospital reform, sleep tips, redefining masculinity, medication expectations
Sep 08, 2020
Mitch Wallis

In this episode of Understood with Mitch Wallis we cover:
- How to check in with someone when they're not ok using the 1-10 scale
- Mitch's recent conflict that left him feeling flat
- The perils of comparative suffering
- How starting, stopping or changing medication can affect your chemistry
- Weird warning signs from your body that something is going wrong (e.g. music "high")
- The inefficiencies of the hospital system for suicide inpatients and discharging protocols
- Managing poor behaviour whilst supporting someone through a tough time
- Mitch's step toward redefining his own sense of masculinity
- The guilt of parenting
- How a single marijuana smoke affected Mitch's mental health
- The 10:3:2:1:0 sleep tips from Ben Greenfield

- Show notes -
PMDD conversation: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5683150/

- SUBSCRIBE, RATE & REVIEW THE SHOW  -
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/02aqR5aly0A7ZSiktQrA2X
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/understood/id1522620849/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb35WjXg5PZG6ZfbNm1AaRA/

- Hotline phone number is -
+61419689311

- Website -
www.mitchwallis.com

- Find me on social media -
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mitch.wallis/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mitchwallism...
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mitchwallis/
TikTok: @mitch.wallis

- INTRO SONG CREDITS - 
What Happens Now - Fransancisco

Show Notes Transcript

In this episode of Understood with Mitch Wallis we cover:
- How to check in with someone when they're not ok using the 1-10 scale
- Mitch's recent conflict that left him feeling flat
- The perils of comparative suffering
- How starting, stopping or changing medication can affect your chemistry
- Weird warning signs from your body that something is going wrong (e.g. music "high")
- The inefficiencies of the hospital system for suicide inpatients and discharging protocols
- Managing poor behaviour whilst supporting someone through a tough time
- Mitch's step toward redefining his own sense of masculinity
- The guilt of parenting
- How a single marijuana smoke affected Mitch's mental health
- The 10:3:2:1:0 sleep tips from Ben Greenfield

- Show notes -
PMDD conversation: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5683150/

- SUBSCRIBE, RATE & REVIEW THE SHOW  -
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/02aqR5aly0A7ZSiktQrA2X
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/understood/id1522620849/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb35WjXg5PZG6ZfbNm1AaRA/

- Hotline phone number is -
+61419689311

- Website -
www.mitchwallis.com

- Find me on social media -
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mitch.wallis/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mitchwallism...
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mitchwallis/
TikTok: @mitch.wallis

- INTRO SONG CREDITS - 
What Happens Now - Fransancisco

Welcome back, you silly scallywags and beautiful animals to another episode of understood. This is the psychology podcast that helps you make sense of your life and may as well at the same time, so that you can live a bit more stress free, and learn to love yourself. I'm your host, Mitch Wallis, and I'm excited to get into it with you today. All right, let's kick it off. It's been, it's been a big couple weeks, this coming week is a UK day in Australia. And that is a big event in the mental health calendar. It's probably the most significant mental health beat that we have here. It is the day that the country stops and encourages everyone to go in and check on a friend or a colleague or a family member. And ask them one simple question. You are okay. But it is often a very complicated and complex thing. And I really liked the initiative. It's been around for a while now. And it seems to be working. at very least, there's a lot of awareness created at a time like this. And one of the things I want to talk about today is how we can check in on our friends and family members in an effective manner when we don't know what to do. Either in checking in or when someone says no, I'm not okay. And yeah, so this week is a huge one for me. I'm doing, I think seven or eight presentations this week, and most of them fall in like a 24 hour period. So I'm going to be wrecked. So my beautiful animals, if you can send me your positive healing vibes, that would be amazing. What else is going on in my life before we jump into the actual good stuff, the learning stuff. I've had a bit of a rough one, to be honest. Sorry to be a downer at the start. It's just been, I think my stress is getting the better of me, my stomach still not healed. But the biggest thing is, I had a conflict with a loved one. And that triggers me more than anything. I think I've mentioned that on the podcast previously, last week, and I just ended up having an absolute shocker. I got in a massive disagreement with someone who I really care about, who is I'm gonna get to keep all the details anonymous and confidential for both of our sake. But it really rocked me to the core. And it rocked me for a few reasons. I think the first is that I was just hurt by the things that they said. And it just cut deep and I'm a sensitive person. I've worked on that for a very long time. But some of the things that they said just cut right to the core. Second thing is that I hated the way that I reacted. I've done a lot of work in my time. And I've gotten a lot better at not acting dramatic or reactive, or aggressive or short tempered or any of that stuff. But there's certain behavioural traits which will push me right my limit and a lot of that is like toxicity and unnecessary snarkiness and bullying and just that people who just emanate that kind of angry vibe. And that's it On me to be on top of to not let that get to me and particularly not act the way that I did. And I think the biggest thing that affected me is I had had a few to drink. And it was a it was a long night the night before as well. So that's not an excuse, I hate when people use that as an excuse. It's not it's just it's just context. But I, they, I was kind of building and building and building and they said this one last thing that was just so hurtful, and I just fucking snapped, I was just like, I shut the fuck up and really lost my temper. And it was horrible, horrible, horrible, and still is we still haven't resolved it, I've reached out. And, again, this is not a blame game, this podcast isn't here to do anything other than I need to talk about what's real for me. And so the details on anyone's business except mine and the person who concerns. So I'm definitely not here to bag them. I'm, if anything here to just talk about the way that I felt like I could have acted better. But regardless of the contents of the situation, there's nothing more that gets to me when I feel like I'm not in alignment with my value set. And my value set is to be able to voice my concerns or needs in a calm coherent way. And I did not do that. And there are things in which both sides need to take accountability for. But I'm can't talk to the other side, I can only talk from mine and mine is that even though I agree with what I said, I did not agree with how I said it. And I just don't like that side of me and I I pride myself on being someone who's mature and advocates for a certain way of behaviour. And meeting poor behaviour with poor behaviour like I did is not the right way to go. So I've been feeling really poorly about that. Really down on myself just down on the situation. You know, like being in conflict with anyone that you love just is the worst man it is the worst that triggers me more than anything. And yeah, it makes my attachment style go bananas. I think one thing that really hurt is this underlying tone of voice, you're the mental health Messiah, you shouldn't fuck up like that. And I just want to take this opportunity to to address that in that. Yeah, some of that is true. I, I need to and I do hold myself to an extremely high standard, given the trust that people place in me in the way that I behave all the time. And I always want to lead by example. And in the same token, I want to make it super clear that I'm never trying to be perfect by no means is my podcast, my social media, my keynote speeches, anything trying to say that I'm infallible. In fact, I would say the entire point of everything I do. And everything that I post is tearing myself or when myself has been torn showing that out for the world to see. All I want to do in mental health is just amplify the things that I've learned usually through my own mock ups. So yeah, I mean, none of this is supposed to be me on a pedestal, telling everyone how it is. It's me sharing my thoughts and insights around where I've got it right and wrong, and where I also have an academic or otherwise standpoint on it. I'll talk about that too. But yeah, regardless of who is right and wrong, I can only put my hand up for what I've done. And I did not like the way I acted. And porn happened again, if I have anything to do with it. But I've done a lot of work around just allowing myself to have that and to let that go. And to do better and not get lost in a shame and guilt spiral, which I definitely did for a hot sec there. So I want to start Yeah, with some vulnerability. Say I am flawed, as is everyone. I'm trying hard. I mean, feeling flat. Not just that it's just a big moment in time. But there's also been a lot of great stuff happened recently. And like I feel super loved always. I feel super grateful to be doing this work and I feel very honoured that I know you guys who've listened to this before. We are so outrageously supportive. And I cannot tell you how much it means even people who send me DMS on Instagram that I don't get to I don't get to read, I certainly don't get to reply to, I still absolutely read pretty much all of them. And they make my day they, I screenshot them and I put them in a folder for when things aren't going well. I go back to them and say, remember, people believe in you and I and I need to believe in myself. So thank you for that. Or our first segment is our complaint segment moving on from I guess we already kicked that off with a complaint about myself, and the situation. But another thing I want to complain about this week is the mismanagement of expectations around medication. So I've heard from a few people where their doctors will tell them to onboard or off board or to change with, I guess, not enough information around the potential side effects that could happen. Now, massive caveat here, I am not shitting on doctors, I think doctors do an amazing job. This isn't a finger pointing exercise. This is a normalising exercise, in terms of wanting people to understand that. It is common to hear from medical practitioners that medication starting ending or changing won't be as bad as what it actually is or can be. And I've had a friend recently who's been told to come off medication and very, very little of the side effects were explained. And I've heard that time and time again. And so I just want people to understand and realise that your brain chemistry is so sensitive. And if you're starting any type of medication, particularly mental health, one, an antidepressant and anti anxiety, anti psychotic, whatever they are, go slow titrate your way on, do not rush onto them off them or changing them, get as much information as you possibly can. So when things happen in the clouds roll in, or your thinking distorts, or your body start whacking out, you'll be able to be ready for it and a lot of the ambiguity will be reduced, which is sometimes half the battle. So if you are feeling sometimes, like you're flying blind, or you're under sold, it's okay. It's normal. do some more research, talk to some more people that have been through it. Ask your doctor more questions. Don't get lost in a Google spiral. Because that's also not helpful on the other side of the coin. But I think it's fairly common for people to not understand the full effects of what can happen. So that's my first small complaint for today. Second, one more, I guess we're on the third now is the fact that the system, the medical system, particularly regarding mental health, I believe is pretty broken. In Australia, at least for a few reasons. And I just want to refer to two stories. The first story was one where I know someone who had to involuntarily commit someone he knew into hospital because of her mental ill health, and how acute that was in terms of suicidality, they were ready to discharge her the same day. One, two, because she was saying that she was okay and ready to go home. Two things there. One, if someone is coming into hospital on a suicide, with suicidal thoughts or suicide attempt, there should be a minimum stay. And it should definitely be well beyond 24 hours, regardless of any signs of their showing. Second thing is they need to be verified by multiple supervisors. And they probably need other people around them to call and make sure that they're not just saying things that like friends and family, they're not just saying things in order to get up. And the other part about that story is they didn't even really check or care who was going to be at home when she got out. And whether or not she had the safety net that she needed in order to object. Now, again, massive caveat. I'm not saying all hospitals are like this. I've actually heard of some hospitals. Have an amazing discharge and or processing experience where someone must call a friend and make contact and reveal what's happened before they even have to leave before they get to leave, whether they like to whether they want to admit it to a friend or not, they have to call and make contact and show that it has been disclosed. But I hear way more stories of quick discharge, lack of information, lack of processing, lack of safety post discharge. Again, the chairman of Lifeline, which is a massive mental health charity here in Australia has talked about his experience where he got discharged fairly quickly and didn't get a call when he got home or the following days, which is actually one of the time someone is most likely to attempt suicide is after a suicide attempt admission. So the post care is also very fragile in my opinion. One story in particular, that hit me really hard was when I was in travelling for work. This is probably almost a year ago now. And this guy said that he told the person in the hospital I didn't know if it was a doctor or a nurse. But he said, If I had a gun in my mouth right now, I'd pull the trigger. And they still let him go. And now with him in a solid headspace, and have been an he has been stable and thriving for a while. He looks back on that. And even though I'm sure he was happy about it at the time, that they're letting go. He thinks, how negligent and how much of an oversight that was for him to literally say those words out loud and still get let go. So I personally believe we have a long way to go in this hospitalisation system, particularly around crisis admission, we have to do mandatory longer. Longest days when someone gets brought into hospital for a suicide attempt, minimum 2448 72 hours, no same day discharges, for suicide attempt admissions. Also, leaving there has to be more validation, that person is in a safe and sound mindset. Ideally, that is verified and regulated and endorsed by friends and family. And that is safe, a safe care plan for when they get home. What the next few hours and days look like ensuring that they have people processes systems around and can support that. Now I know that a hospital can't literally want, they can that it would be very hard for them to come home with that person and look after them being incredibly expensive, etc. But there has to be ways there has to be follow up phone calls when someone gets out to see how they are mandatory follow up phone calls post admission. Because right now, there is very little if any of that, you know, we look at the maternity system coming after what happens after someone gives birth to a child. I think that's a really great process. And there's a lot of follow up is extreme amounts of care, they make sure that you're very, very safe before you go. And in the days, weeks, months following you have a full team around you to support you. Mental Health has to get like done, particularly when it comes to suicide and crisis. If you know of any stories good or bad around this topic, I would love to hear from you please hit the hotline. And the that number will be in the show notes. But just to say it out loud. Again, the number is plus 61419689311. And you'll be pleased to know that the hotline is now set up on WhatsApp. So you can either text me there or leave a voice note. Voice notes even better, because it just I think there's a lot more of a message that's captured in a voice note. So hit me up. Remember, I can't get back to you. It's literally just a repository and it's definitely not for leaving a crisis call of your own. Definitely call emergency services or a helpline, your local helpline. But it's frustrating to see how how broken the system can be particularly in the pointy end. So yeah, we have to get better around managing admission stays when it's involuntary. Or sections and then discharging process and post discharge process? Yeah. So, I mean, I definitely am a fan of, hey get to people, well before they end up at the edge of the cliff, the metaphorical Cliff in this instance, we need to do way more early intervention and prevention programmes. But the fence at the cliff has to be fucking sturdy. It has to be just as a backup, both need to work stronger and better. What am I curious about? Well, a couple things. One, I've noticed in the last week or so is, I haven't felt my best that a new warning sign has emerged into my awareness of warning signs being your body's response, or flags that you're not doing well, often that you've been triggered, or that you're stressed or anxious, or you're depressed. And you're going to continue like that, unless you change something. So your body gives you warning signs. And I have a whole bunch of weird ones I think I've talked about before, and like seeing shapes in marble objects, or seeing shapes in clouds, for whatever reason, that's this weird sign that my body isn't doing? Well, it's a pattern recognition thing. But what I've noticed this week is not deriving pleasure from music. So music is a massive source of happiness, for me massive, and it's also just a massive source of feeling, you know, playing music that I really love through my ears or in the car, whatever, I often get very moved by it, I'll even get really pumped. Or feel sad, whatever it is, I'll feel something intensely. And it's awesome. So moved. What I've noticed over the last week is I haven't been reacting to music or songs as much there hasn't been this connection to it, I haven't really been moved by it. I don't feel it in my bones. And I'm like, wow, that's interesting. This is another little tool to put into my tool belt of when this happens. If this happens in future, I'll know that it's actually a signpost for things aren't going well. So even if I'm not consciously aware of something that week, or at that time period, now that it's written down, and now that I know it, I'll be able to hopefully catch a spiral earlier by going Oh, musics not hitting like it usually does. Maybe something is worse off in my emotional health than I thought. So yeah, I find I found that intriguing. That my relationship to music and my ability to vibe on it with it was less when I'm not in a headspace that I want to be. If this is something you've experienced, or you have other weird and quirky, wonderful warning signs, give us a call, hit us on the hotline, leave a voice message, or send a text. Another thing I'm curious about is people's comparative suffering. So I posted about this a bit on social media. comparative suffering is basically when you say I'm not allowed to feel bad because this person is feeling worse. And it was a term largely coined by Rene Brown. And there's a shit tonne of it going on at the moment during COVID. COVID is like comparative suffering minefield, because we're all somewhat disrupted. And I'm not saying everyone's having a bad time. Some people are having a better time. But I would say the large majority are impacted polling. And that is constantly filtered by this follow up thought of, yeah, but it could be worse because x, y and Zed have it, you know, way, way worse off. And I think that the intent of comparative suffering is a good is a good one in that. You, you you're trying to remind yourself or give yourself perspective of what you do have currently, that it's done in when it's done in a way where you ignore disallow or push aside your own emotions, then it's not being done correctly. Or not productively not helpful. When we say I'm feeling bad, or you know, it's impacting me that I can't go down My local coffee shop and see my barista? You know, you could tell yourself, oh, what a first world problem? How dare you even think about that when people are literally dying all over the world. If it's important to you, or if it impacts you, it impacts you. And you could be worse off. It's not all. So it's not, I'm either allowed to feel this, or someone has it worse, which one Which side do I have to pick it? I hate the fact that I can't go and talk to my barista. And that actually gets me down more probably than the average person. And I also recognise that I'm lucky for this, this and this, because not everyone has that. So comparative suffering is when we eliminate our own feelings, because someone has it worse. Gratitude or perspective is when we feel what we need to feel without shame, without guilt without questioning, and also recognise the broader system or scheme in which we are thriving, despite others, maybe not thriving at that same level. So hopefully, that clears up a little bit around comparative suffering because it is hot right now, in COVID, you are allowed to have the shifts or feel depressed because you can't go to your gym. Even though some people don't have arms and legs. It's when they come together. That's the powerful part when you feel what you need to feel, and you recognise what you have. And you feel compassion, and empathy for those less fortunate. And I'd like to hear about your comparative suffering experiences. My last curious point is around pmdd, which stands for post menstrual dysphoric disorder. I need to scrub off my DSM language. This is something I posted about on Instagram a few months ago now. And I asked girls, have you ever experienced you know, people say I'm PMS saying you know, there's this term in society, I've got PMS, but PMS in its extreme form, when it turns into this pmdd. It's an actual clinical disorder. And it can be life altering, like completely combusting, your mental health. And I know, a few people who have experienced the full extent and full brunt of what a menstrual cycle a monthly menstrual cycle can do, to one's sanity. And what inspired me to post about it and asked my Instagram community have you been through this is because I couldn't find a lot of solid research around how to treat it. And so I wanted to mine the insights from everyone in the community to say, how have you done it. And I kind of where I've kind of landed is a there isn't a silver bullet and a lot of people are out there really hurting. And also feeling really isolated. Because I don't think everyone truly appreciates just how bad it can get and just how out of someone's control it is or can be. And that knowing that it's coming every month biologically would just be such a disempowering place to be knowing that it's like oh, in a few weeks, I'm going to get this tidal wave of punches again, to my physical emotional body. And that's, that's a real shame. And I couldn't even imagine how overwhelming that must be. So I think the first thing is the isolation and then the confusion as to what to do about that. The second thing I think, I found was that the pill, as in the contraceptive pill, seems to be probably the first line of defence. Alongside the third thing I picked up which was antidepressants. The pill works on that similar system. And but here's the thing is that the friend I was actually helping went on the pill in order to combat that as per advice from her doctor. But I dug around and I asked her, Hey, it seems that there's a specific ingredient, and I should have actually got this up. It's not on my phone. I'll try and put it in the show notes. There was a specific ingredient I found that only in some pills, not all of them. Some pills are purely contraceptive. Others have a specific ingredient that helps regulate the depressive side of PMS or pmdd. She was only put on the contraceptive type of pill, not one with this specific ingredient. And I said, Well, what did your doctor say and her doctors and she said, Oh, I thought you were just on it for pregnancy, not the depression. And so there was a massive miscommunication there. And I have no idea how that big of a miscommunication happened. But girls, if you're out there, and you're struggling with this, I'm sure you've looked down the pill Avenue, but also make sure that there's a specific ingredient in it, which again, I'll put in the show notes. That seems to be the difference between that work stream working or not. The third being antidepressant, what's called an SSRI, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor helps to keep your happy juices, in this case serotonin, more available to your brain and your nervous system, so that you can utilise more of that to keep in a stable headspace. Now, antidepressants or SSRIs are used for a whole myriad of things, the major to being anxiety, depression, but then considering that PMS can turn into a sub segment of depression in its own unique form, it makes sense that that can help to augment or offset some of the the poor benefit poor outcomes of that experience. So I would say you have three things. It's super confusing and lonely, the pill but a certain type of pill helps, and antidepressants and SSRIs can help create a stable stabilisation even I've heard girls using an SSRI only for that week in the month. It has something to do with the oestrogen and progesterone. Something levels. Again, you can see I haven't done enough research here. But I have seen the use of sporadic or just weekly dose that week taking it as opposed to taking it always on. And from what I can see that is pretty effective. Again, with this stuff, definitely talk to your doctor about it. But antidepressants aren't usually taken in, on off on off, on off, they're taken either on or off. But it appears with this specific diagnosis or experience that can be an effective strategy that on off on off. So yes, hopefully that provides some relief. I also heard things like exercise and sleep and diet are playing a massive part in how severe that months pmdd the postmenstrual impact is for that month. But it's a topic that's not spoken about enough. So I know that wasn't an answer, but I just wanted to at least get the conversation up here so that you knew that it wasn't falling by the wayside and that it's important and that your pain is valid. Okay, on to the cool section. So a couple of things I found cool. One is this sleep framework called 10 321. And I found it from a guy called Brett Ben Greenfield fitness you can find him on Instagram and social media at Ben Greenfield fitness. And he talks about how we use this system to help with our nighttime routine and getting high quality sleep. So the 10 is for 10 hours prior to sleep in which we you will not drink caffeine. So 10 hours prior no caffeine, so that means not to spell it out to simply but if you're going to bed at 10pm you're not having coffee after midday. The three is three the three hours prior to sleep in which you will not eat or drink anything other than water. And that's got something to do with our metabolism and how it regulates energy and eating or drinking inside that window is too close to bed can produce chemicals that can keep us awake to two hours prior to sleeping which you will not Work. This is a fairly obvious one, but one that is really hard when devices are so prolific in all of our rooms. But this is giving them mine time to shut down. And for me, I think I'm a bit guilty of this, I'll see an email pop up on the phone, I'll just go Oh, I just want to read this one. But that one turns into this whole spiral because it's probably something that I forgot to action on need to do tomorrow and then did it and the minds back up and all the cylinders are firing again. So Ben says two hours is the minimum window, you need to not do any work before going into bed. Then one hour prior to sleep in which you will not be exposed to screens. So regardless of where you're working, no screens that includes Netflix, television, films, etc. And then zero is the amount of times that you hit the snooze button. That is because if you wake up inconsistently at different times, every day, your body doesn't form a healthy what's called circadian rhythm, which enables basically your brain to say, I'm gonna now release all the juices in here that makes you tired. And then I'm going to release juices that make you feel awake at times that are helpful I you know, 10 till six or whatever your sleeping window is. So to summarise the 10 3210 rule 10 hours, no caffeine, 10 hours before bed, no caffeine, three hours before bed, no food or drink of the mortar. Two hours before bed, no work one hour before bed, no screens, and then zero times that you hit the snooze button. So I thought that was just a cool nifty little framework. I love acronyms and even number acronyms like this. The I wanted to apply my own world. And I thought I'm sure this community will geek out on that. So hopefully you do. Another thing I think is cool. Is my clients and I just wanted to reflect on do you have people in your professional world that will allow you to be you because that is such a gift. And what's really great is that even though I serve my clients in the area of mental health, so for example, American Express, Microsoft, Kp meet massive, massive clients, never in my previous life or world or mindset, whether it's my fault, or someone else's doesn't matter. Could I say, Oh shit, I'm really going to struggle to get this done because of my mental health. But what I find so amazing, I had one of these moments the other day where I was like, Man, I'm lucky that even though I'm trying to help them build mental health programmes, a couple of times, I've had to put my hand up and say, Hey, I'm really redlining. Right now I just need a bit more time or whatever, whatever. And the clients really do appreciate that. And let me have that space 99 times out of 100. And that's awesome. Because, yes, mental health is something we're supposed to walk and live, not just value. But it's easy for someone in a corporate role, for example, in HR to turn it into a bit of a job and a KPI and a thing that you go to do. And so it's like, cool, I know. But we don't necessarily operate like that here. So, but I haven't had that. And I know that not everyone gets that luxury of actually being listened to and being trusted and stuff like that. So I just want to say what's super cool is I'm lucky to have clients that truly do walk the walk, when I work with them in mental health, and we speak to each other in a way and we operate in a way and we accomplish things in a way that is aligned to what we believe. Not, it's not just for sure. And so thank you to everyone I work with that, that walks that walk. I'm also really grateful to my team, the people that I don't like saying that people work for me, but people work with me and how supportive they are. And it's just man, so awesome. So awesome. Got the best team. There was one more thing that I found really cool, but it's not sinking in my notes here. I was driving today. What was it? It's not gonna come to me. I can feel it. I can feel it. I always know when it will. This time at work. I'm gonna quickly check on my phone. I swear right down. Bear with me. I'm whispering in your ear. This is super weird for you. It's kind of weird for me. Okay, there it is, I think. No, it's not that. All right, well, we're not getting that third call. But technology's cool. Also got a new screen and a new computer. And that's super cool. Loving that. Let's go to questions. I'm excited for questions this week. We didn't get really round to them in the last one. All right, so go through some texts. So we've got a text here from Megan, on the hotline. Hey, I've sent a couple of dams trying to get some advice or recommendations for myself, my partner slash ex partner at the moment, and child's father suffers with serious depression, and I'm struggling to support him. I try and do my best. I want to be the best support for him possible. But I think I'm making him feel worse. Thanks, Mitch, from Megan, Megan, here. And I think everyone feels that when someone is not doing well, it is so hard to know, am I doing the right thing or not? 90% of supporting someone is listening. 10% is problem solving. You can't necessarily take this problem away from him. The number one job is how do you not add to it, whilst also keeping safe within your own boundaries and not letting someone walk over you. And this brings me to a really important point that's been top of mind for me this last week, which is mental health is not an excuse for poor behaviour. This is such an important point. People can never ever use pain as a way of being like, Yeah, but I'm acting like that, because I'm in pain. So you should just cop it. No, that's not how it works. Poor behaviour is never okay. And it should be called called out in the right way, of course, privately commonly, with clear action points, etc. But I know for a lot of people, once they get hurt, they kind of want to hurt the world back to get even. Or they think, well, people should just understand that I'm acting like this because they don't, they're not going to understand what I'm feeling. So at least understand the behaviour. It's just lazy and negligent and irrational to think that even though we're in pain, we can act however we want. We have to take responsibility and accountability for that. In fact, the lack of someone calling you on poor behaviour, even though you're hurting, will not only serve to push people out of your life and therefore leading to a state of loneliness and a lack of coping. But what it will also do is make you believe that the narrative that you're telling yourself is the right one, even though it's the unhelpful one that really so wounded, almost victim like mentality because when, when you're in that mentality, if behaving poorly gets you the outcome you want I people submitting to you or rolling over to or you get loved through guilt, tripping on manipulation, then you only further be owned by that narrative, you will further lean into it because it's getting you the outcome that you want. And that will only lead to more and more pain. So poor behaviour isn't good for not sorry, not calling out poor behaviour isn't good for the sufferer, because I'll push people away and it will expand and unhelpful narrative. And also, as importantly, it's not good for you, because it's not putting up the boundaries necessary to be able to protect yourself. And as I've spoken about, it's not as simple as I'm either all in and I'm just taking all the punches or I'm all that and I'm completely numb to it. And I'm not even paying them any attention at all. It's somewhere in the middle, which is I can always show up for the story. I can always show up to try and understand why that person is feeling what they're feeling if it has something to do with me or not. And that part we never get to judge that part. We do not get a say as to whether they're allowed to feel that whether they should feel that whether it's too strong, too weak to nothing, too isn't allowed in the story section. The part where we get input is in the behaviour and if it affects us so someone could be feeling what you believe to be the most unnecessary feeling as a result of a certain problem or situation you might be like, why would you be feeling that? Why would you think that? Why would you Baba that's 100 believe any rights of the supporter or of the other person to have a say over what we do get to have a say over is then how it affects us by saying, here's what's okay with me, and here's what's not okay with me in terms of the subsequent behaviour, separating the story and the behaviour is so important. Now, not so far that you don't actually appreciate that there is probably a reason behind the behaviour. And it helps to not completely walk away from someone because there's context. And so we shouldn't decouple them completely, but they need to be way more decoupled than people think. And that's to the benefit of both parties. Both parties will benefit it when we take behaviour separate to story. And we have input to the behaviour but not to the story necessarily, unless it's one of reach shifting to a more validated and positive mindset. But even then, we want to use caution, and often that's the role of a professional, but calling out what you can and can't do. Now, to come back, like to answer your question directly. I know that you're gonna care and have more of more skin in the game than usual with your partner slash ex partner, because he's your child's father. So you want him to be okay. Not just for him, but for your daughter. A totally yet done that you can't fix him. What you can do is walk beside him. Listen, show that you care, show that you'll be there for him even though you guys still aren't together. Ask him what he needs, what will help you get better stay patient with him, encourage him to reach out to professional support. But regardless, just let him know that you're not going anywhere. Unless you have to in order to avoid unnecessary pain that he's throwing your way with behaviour that's non tolerable. 90% is just showing up 10% is the actual problem solving. It's a journey. And you're totally in your right to feel tired and frustrated right now if that's how you feel. It can be so consuming. And when there's a child in the mix, I think it's even harder because you don't want to have any negative effects on them particularly downstream. and lack of parent having good mental health can result in that. Yeah, so I understand that. keep showing up. encourage him to reach out for professional support. Day by day. Another question another text I have here. Hey, Mitch, I just came across your Instagram profile and was intrigued. I have a question and this is playing with my mental health giving me anxiety and low self esteem. There was no question in that one. So I don't know what to do there. I'm sorry. Next one. I mentioned my name is Leanne. I'm not going to say where you're from just in case you don't want me to say that. My wonderings are. My beautiful daughter is 23 and has suffered from depression since she was a teenager. Life has had its challenges for her with depression, self harm, intolerance, hate blame shut downs, vulnerability and some beautiful moments. During the initial phase of first intervention, I was on a steep learning curve and made many mistakes in management and probably still do I'm sure it did not help when others would say she was just being a teenager and needed more control. This somewhat entitled me to feel more frustrated and tolerant if her behaviours when she was struggling massively. With the help of social workers, psychologists, psychiatrists, I began to get an outsider understanding of life with depression and self harm but truly I only understand second handedly, I'm still guarded and feeling responsible for not seeing the signs not being more understanding at the time and not being a soft place for her to fall and feel like she could open up. I failed. We have such a wonderful relationship now where we can be roaring as open as possible. I'm so very proud of her. However, I'm always feeling on edge that I'm not missing. Hurt behind the smile more importantly, my guilt and feeling like I failed my daughter with my parenting of control and domination to change the problematic behaviours. Until the help showed me otherwise cripples me, and I can't shake it. We've had conversations of how bad she was also fuels of her treatment toward me during these years. This makes me so distressed as I know, she had no other way of showing me she was hurting internally. She just didn't know how to articulate it. And she was only a child. I heard that she feels his guilt also. Now we pour our love over each other, like an antiseptic, hoping to dissolve the infection. How do us as parents lay these feelings down and move forward? Leanne, what a beautiful message. Wow. very fitting considering our last chat around story and behaviour. It's really hard as a parent to know with a teenager is this teenage angst that I need to call? Or is there something more going on here? And I would say a few things. The first is I think all parents should come in with a mindset of innocent until proven guilty. And all real for them even if you don't understand it yourself. If parents come in with a curious mindset before a dismissive one, I think we're going to have a lot less problems go unnoticed. Now, this isn't trying to guilt trip you because I can tell just by a message that you're a good person and you love your daughter infinitely. And that's probably why you've landed at the point that you have, because intent will always overcome any minor mistakes or misdemeanours we make unintentionally. But lots of parents would be feeling the pressure around like how do I know is this quote unquote, normal teenage behaviour. Or is it's gotten to a point of clinical. So if we're going with this mindset of real until proven, not real until proven innocent until proven guilty. And really, even if I don't understand it, we can always hold space for the story. And then modulate the behaviour. Remember, it's the story that's the fixed side is the behaviour that we that we use as our livan not lever of power manipulation but lever of guiding its impact on you and your impact on her. Just because someone is feeling bad doesn't mean that they need to run amok. And in fact, if parents were more curious, and validating of emotions that they don't understand in the first place, maybe we wouldn't have people or children acting up in order to get that level of attention and validity. However, acting up permanently can't be rewarded either. As I said in the last comment, it's not gonna serve them, it's not gonna serve you. So I think it's how do we hold space and get really curious and get invested in How are you feeling? Where's this coming from? We're staying abreast to it, we're not trying to solve it, we're just giving them that opportunity that if they want to take that envelope, if they want to take that moment in time in which you come to them and offer an ear or just just hang out with them watch a movie with them. They may or may not take you up on that. But it's the constant offering of love and presence. That is the important part. And when behaviour happens, I think it's not only okay, but necessary to challenge if someone starts to fly off the handle either through anger or rebellion or whatever that's it's never just like, Oh, well, you know, they're in pain or, and on the other side, it's just as unhelpful to be like, hey, let me now discipline the absolute shit out of you without even inquiring why you might be doing this. Both sides of that ledger are probably not the most human most integrated, most helpful, most cathartic. So I think what Yeah, let's go in. And let's try and understand that old time someone's story in their feelings. And then after that work, what behaviour is okay? And not okay in relation to you as a supporter in relation to their own life and parenting is really hard role to play because you're wearing like 84 hats. And it can be so complicated. But I don't know if anyone has told you this. And this is in my own heart space right now calling me the most more than any advice I can give you, Leanne I'm going to look down the barrel of the camera, if you're watching the video podcast as I save this, it's time to let this go. I'm gonna say that once more, it's time to let this go. It's not serving you or her to let this wound fester, you have a choice. Right now, all that regret and all that shame is going to play out one way or another through hypersensitivity, you might over index and go the completely other way where you then smother her, and she doesn't get the individuality and all that stuff. Find that middle ground, stay strong. You always have good intent. You love her. And she knows that. And that's probably the thing that's got her through. She knows that, celebrate where you are now, you got to let that story of the past go for her as much as you It's time now to let this go. I hope that resonates with you. And it might take time to do that. But now's the time to start to let this go. And truly, life's too short. The outcome of this situation is too good to get lost on this point. And I really, really, really appreciate you messaging in beautiful story. Here's another message that's come through image. My name is Joe. I've recently had the privilege to be in your session. I'm not going to name this session. It was just a session I gave as a public talk. A couple of weeks ago, I now follow heart on my sleeve. And listening to your podcast. I want to thank you as I literally had an epiphany when you put up one of your slides and it was me in capital letters. Just like when you saw that YouTube video that changed your life. This one particular slide was my moment. I don't know if this is possible, but I've enrolled to study a Bachelor of psychology through Macquarie University next year. But could you be my mentor? you've inspired me in ways that people who have had their life's purpose has finally revealed themselves feel driven purpose feel purposeful and intense. It's like reaching the lower gates to heaven. And you can hear the angels talking figuratively not literally. I've put off studies as I fell pregnant with my twins, but they'll be too by the time I start and I am pumped to get into the thick of it understand if you can't be my mentor But hey, you don't believe if you don't believe you don't receive stay shiny, bright type like Joe. Joe, you sound fucking awesome. And I, I would like to to be a part of it in some way. I don't know if it's through an official mentoring relationship. But hopefully we can work something out I'm I'm also working on my boundaries at the moment in saying yes to the stuff I can actually follow through on and not over committing myself, you definitely should have sent that message I would have sent that message. As you say you don't ask you don't receive. Hopefully we can work something out. It might not be ongoing, I might be able to have a session or two. But reach out on Instagram. And we'll try and work something out. But either way, I think you're on an amazing path. And I'm so grateful and humbled that anything in the presentation sparked that moment of holy shit this May I feel understood and wow, I mean, I remember what that was like for me like it was yesterday. And if I have that, uh, if any of video just chopped up. Back on. If any of my story gave that for you. Makes me feel a lot better than what I've been feeling last few days. So thank you. And I'm really excited to see where you go and what you do with this. A couple more questions that came in. Hey, Mitch, I'm not sure if you will receive this message. But my name is Joseph and I live in the United States. I follow your Instagram. I read your post on your story. I read your post on your story this morning and I just wanted to say thank you For your heartfelt expressions, so many times we try to fit people into boxes when we're all unique individuals. I'm glad that you didn't take your post down. Much love and respect. Thanks, Joseph. Yeah, sorry that just for a bit of context, I posted this image. It was a collection of little Instagram stories where I was having a really stressful day, I think was Thursday or Friday. And I ended this meeting and the meeting was on the water's edge. And I usually would have just jumped in my car and went to my next meeting, but I was like, No, I'm gonna take five. So I walked down, sat on the water's edge, breath in, and just was like, ah, and usually what I do in those moments is I say, to the universe, universe, I'm stressed and I say this out loud, please help me. Or I'll say, God, I really need your help right now. And almost always, it's really weird. In that moment, as I say that something in the immediate environment will reveal itself to like signpost, me, and maybe that's me being crazy looking for things that aren't there. Who knows, but both work. And in this occasion, I looked down there was just like, beautiful like dandelion, certain type dandelion coming out of the ground. And I started asking questions, I don't know why just felt right. I was like, how did you get here? How did you become? How did you grow to this point? And I was like, well, you grew slowly, you grew effortlessly. You grew with a lot of help from the ecosystem around you. And you didn't force anything. There was pressure and there was tension. There was drive, but there was no force. And I was like, oh, wow, that's exactly what I needed to, quote, unquote, hear, or at least feel. Anywhere. I posted these stories. And I said, I just spoke to a flower, and go to a whole lot of inside, it didn't talk back, but I felt its teachings. And I feel better. And shortly after that, I saw a couple people who I know unfollowed unfollowed me a while ago, people I grew up with watching my story. So the only reason they would have seen that is that if someone sent it to them as like a lot of like, Get a load of what this crackhead is, is posting about. And I was filled with immense insecurity, immense insecurity, I felt so embarrassed and so ashamed, like, Oh my god, I'm such a pussy. I'm such. I'm fucking nuts. I'm an absolute lunatic. Even still, by the way, even still, I get those thoughts. Occasionally, even though I've worked on it so much, I still get them occasionally, particularly when it comes to old school friends, because that narrative is still kind of stuck with me. And I have, I have dreams at least once a week where I'm getting bullied for who I am. And like what I talk about, you know, emotional shear. And that people laugh at me behind my back and all that stuff. And I wrote about that. And I said, Just then I was filled with immense insecurity. And all I wanted to do was take this down, but I'm not going to. And I think that's the first time where I haven't folded on something to do with a masculine narrative related insecurity. And I was just talking about how petrifying it is to step outside of the traditional masculine narrative if you don't feel traditionally masculine, particularly in Australia. Now I'm a very straight male. And I don't say that because if it was anything otherwise, that that would be a bad thing at all. I'm just saying that that's the lens in which I speak from. But I'm not necessarily like, as I said, in this post, one side of me Loves boxing, loves wrestling with my mates when I'm drunk. Loves, I don't know, rugby and shit. And then there's another part of me that thinks about the meaning of life like four times a minute, that cries that is hypersensitive, that journals that is deeply moved by the arts. The talks about emotional shear, and where's my heart on my sleeve. And it was really the first time where I was like, wow, I'm more peace with this than I used to be. And I'm not taking it down. And I want to write about the fact that I'm not taking it down, because this is a big step. And I had an outpouring, man, an outpouring of support for that one. I meant so much and particularly blokes being like, well, I really need to hear that like, even builders like tradies with full sleeves of tats being like, man, I so feel this, like I don't necessarily just want to talk about food and beer all the time. And it's nice to know that other people are going through this tension of what happens if I don't fit this traditional masculine narrative. So I'm glad that resonated Joseph I really am. And I'm really happy from for myself MTU that we can proudly just be whoever the fuck we are. You know, masculine energy, feminine energy, all the energies. But just you is the only thing that matters. So I appreciate you recognising that we got one last call. This one's a voicemail. Let me see if I can get my trusty device working here. I bet I screw this up. Where are we voicemail? See we go. Yep, screwed it. Alright, let's try that once more. on, turn on. All right, I'll try and play it through here. Hold up. I was trying to play it through my computer didn't work. I'm gonna play it through here and your podcasts and you mentioned smoking marijuana at 16. And that triggered your panic disorder. Yeah, that was exactly the same as me it was 91 time only. Down 44 and I'm still I'm under half. But it's it's always been if you could elaborate a bit more on your experience. I didn't catch your name there at the start. Let me hear Shree? Good question. That one. Yeah, so she's referring to a recently talked about an experience with marijuana when I was I think I was 16 I think Sure. You said you were 19 that really set off panic disorder. And it sounds like it did for you as well. One smirk? Well, the worst. I can't it's one. There are very few areas I can't talk a lot about and this is one of them, just because it's not something I like to rehash but essentially for me it triggered depersonalization disorder, which I didn't know was a thing until four years ago and part of the uncovering of that being a thing, particularly the fact that a lot of depersonalization disorder can be triggered by marijuana changed my life big time because it can make you feel like you're going fucking nuts 24 seven I think it was almost like the the panic attack I had when I smoked that night had such a traumatic effect on my brain and that it petrified me so much that it like Scott it and I actually developed not only depersonalization disorder from a bitter substrate of OCD from that moment where I couldn't eat spaghetti with Oregon on top of it because I wasn't sure if the Oregon or was marijuana chopped up or I could never share a cigarette or anything like that. I became phobic of being drugged because to me drugs were like a dog that had bitten me. And I would do anything to avoid another dog bite because in my mind, the dog bite for a lot of my life I thought had killed me it was just a matter of time, because of how much damage that it had done. That if if I survive that first dog bite, the next one would get me for sure. And it's interesting. I've managing quite well now but one thing that I still have come up every couple weeks is this Drago CD, like all if I take a drink from someone's drink and I haven't noticed it I'll have to go to the bathroom wash my mouth out in case that there was drugs in that drink like crazy shit like stuff that obviously rationally I'm like this is bonkers. But the fear of quote unquote losing my mind again, and how it took decades to rebuild from an event that would have lasted a minute and a half of smoking a joint was just and has been something that my brain has taken a lot to come to terms with. So if you're feeling that definitely not alone there. I think for me it has been making peace with whatever I thought happened in that moment what wasn't true and if Was I had to make, like, it's fine. I thought that I'd gone crazy and that that flicked the switch. I spent my whole life trying to convince myself I wasn't in the moment that I just surrendered to either way, who cares? It became a measurably lighter. So making peace with whatever that was holding, and have a look up depersonalization disorder, because it might be something that you've gotten. And a lot of that is coming back into your body because it's it's a dissociative experience, it's objecting. So the way that you treat it is to do a lot of body work, particularly yoga, breathing, mindfulness scans, cold water therapy, things that get you in your body, and not scared to be living in it at home. And, and re associating your body with a with a place as a place of safety. Diet is also a big one, too, that I feel just making sure that your chemistry is solid. And I would say my antidepressant has helped somewhat with those types of symptoms, those those dissociative ones, but mainly dissociation comes from not wanting to feel and so how do you feel in the right way, and often that should be supervised through a therapist and confronting some of those deep, deep, deep seated thoughts and fears and beliefs that you don't want to look at. And finally looking at them and then they lose their grip, and they lose their power. But it's fucking scary, man, drug drug. stuff is so scary because it can feel so final, but it's not. I think that's it for today. We're over an hour. It's weird. I feel weird. I feel weird on this episode. And our punches stuff just knocked me around. I think I'm just still disappointed in myself. Having an argument with someone which I need to get the fuck over. Because beating myself up is just like how I told her I told Leanne on this call, you got to let it go. So I promise I'm gonna let this go. There you go. That actually helped a lot just saying that to your decision. And not beating myself up for being human. I am not the mental health Messiah. I'm a dude that is trying his best. And hopefully it's helping someone. But thanks for letting me be made today. I know I'm off tweed in a weird headspace. But I'm going to come back firing is my usual cell phone. My next one. Fuck it. I'm gonna come back firing is my usual self tomorrow after a good sleep. It's my first nighttime episode that I've recorded. It's 1010 to midnight on Sunday night right now. Yeah, and it's just this is why I wanted to start the podcast so that I could feel that there was a community here that understood me and loved me. And that we could help each other understand ourselves. And you've done that for me today simply by knowing that you're there. Because I know that their eardrums right now. Holding space for me, offering me peace. And I am to you. I think that'll be that'll be it for today. Any plugs? Oh, yeah. So for Are you okay day. Take one KPI, check in with someone asked one person that day, are you okay? And one of the best little tricks. And then just a quick plug here that when we launch our real mates, platform in a few weeks, the training will teach you how to do this better than you're gonna say any other training out there? How to support someone. So stay tuned for that. But in the meantime, really quick tip, instead of just saying are you okay? Say how have you been feeling out of 10 the last two weeks? Because it makes the Ioh k a far more tangible and quantifiable conversation and for whatever reason, that just seems to be a really smooth entry point into an actual number which is I'm a two. Okay, why to or I'm a nine. Okay, why nine? So how have you been feeling out of 10 recently, using a sliding scale is a really great way to get an effective conversation going and not just turn into Yeah, I'm fine. So see if you can ask one person this. Are you okay? Have you been feeling on a scale of one to 10 recently 10 being feeling amazing one being Khan cope Yeah, everything else. Check out Instagram please rate review subscribe podcast helps a lot and love y'all cheering you on. Speak to you soon you beautiful animals have an amazing night or day depending on when you're listening to this piece into this piece into this piece into this