Understood

Ep.4 | Pervis Taylor: how we show up for our black brothers & sisters

July 13, 2020 Mitch Wallis
Understood
Ep.4 | Pervis Taylor: how we show up for our black brothers & sisters
Chapters
Understood
Ep.4 | Pervis Taylor: how we show up for our black brothers & sisters
Jul 13, 2020
Mitch Wallis

In this episode we cover:
- A real story from a successful black man who has experienced racism his whole life to humanise the reality of racism in the 21st century
- The difference between white privilege & racism
- What we can do to help lift up our black brothers & sisters and do small acts to push society forward
- How the Black Lives Matter Movement extends beyond an issue of police brutality
- An exploration of the incarceration issue and the layers that build up to perpetuate or perception a stigma over time
- The “child state” of trauma that can last into adulthood and how parenting can have such a big impact on this

This episode’s guest is Pervis Taylor, III, M.A. Pervis is an award-winning celebrity life coach, speaker and author of “Pervis Principles” Volumes 1&2 and “Single Man, Married Man”. As a result of his own trauma, Pervis has dedicated his life to the betterment of one's mental and emotional growth. Through his honing methods, he continues to transform the lives of his extensive client roster that reaches both celebrities, executives, organisations and most importantly inner city youth by pinpointing their needs and goals. Pervis has his Bachelors in marketing from University of Miami and his Masters in Clinical Psychology from Columbia University.

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Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb35WjXg5PZG6ZfbNm1AaRA/

- Hotline phone number is -
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- Website -
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Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mitchwallism... 
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mitchwallis/
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Show Notes Transcript

In this episode we cover:
- A real story from a successful black man who has experienced racism his whole life to humanise the reality of racism in the 21st century
- The difference between white privilege & racism
- What we can do to help lift up our black brothers & sisters and do small acts to push society forward
- How the Black Lives Matter Movement extends beyond an issue of police brutality
- An exploration of the incarceration issue and the layers that build up to perpetuate or perception a stigma over time
- The “child state” of trauma that can last into adulthood and how parenting can have such a big impact on this

This episode’s guest is Pervis Taylor, III, M.A. Pervis is an award-winning celebrity life coach, speaker and author of “Pervis Principles” Volumes 1&2 and “Single Man, Married Man”. As a result of his own trauma, Pervis has dedicated his life to the betterment of one's mental and emotional growth. Through his honing methods, he continues to transform the lives of his extensive client roster that reaches both celebrities, executives, organisations and most importantly inner city youth by pinpointing their needs and goals. Pervis has his Bachelors in marketing from University of Miami and his Masters in Clinical Psychology from Columbia University.

- SUBSCRIBE -
For more mental health content.
Please rate & review the show!

- PODCAST LINKS -
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/02aqR5a...
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/understood/id1522620849/
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb35WjXg5PZG6ZfbNm1AaRA/

- Hotline phone number is -
+61419689311

- Website -
www.mitchwallis.com

- Find me on social media -
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mitch.wallis/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mitchwallism... 
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mitchwallis/
TikTok: @mitch.wallis

Mitch Wallis:

Welcome back you beautiful animals. It is Episode Four of the understood podcast. And I am excited to introduce our first guest. Today we are going deep into the Black Lives Matter movement. I'm joined by my friend Purvis Taylor. And some people might think what has this got to do with mental health. And I think this has a lot to do with mental health, the mental health and entire race really. And it also has a lot to do with understanding how we understand each other. And so for me, it's felt very relevant and something I've just wanted to talk about. I feel like interviewing and giving other people a voice is a good way to give back. And one of the best ways to understand someone or something is to get into the mind of someone else who's experiencing it and to stay curious about their reality. And as I mentioned, the last episode, I really had to look at myself during the recent Black Lives Matter movement uprising after George Floyd's death and ask some hard questions about racism and white privilege in society and in myself. And I was surprised at what I found. I've been on a bit of a research conquest and having to do some soul searching around how I can be a better ally to the black community, particularly as it relates to mental health. And this episode hold some of those insights. So, purpose is a award winning life coach, speaker and author of perverse principles, volumes one and two and single man married man. As a result of his own trauma, Purvis has dedicated his life to the betterment of one's mental and emotional growth. Through his honing methods, he continues to transform the lives of his extensive client roster, reaches both celebrities, executives, organisations, and most importantly, in City Youth by pinpointing their needs and goals. He's got a bachelor's degree in marketing from the University of Miami, and his master's of clinical psychology from Columbia University. And that's actually where we met, we met. We both did the same master's degree, I was living in the States at the time. And yeah, I was trying to basically educate my way into survival about five years ago, because I couldn't find a professional that I clicked with at that point. And I'd always been fascinated with mine. So I was like, I'll just try a degree in it. And yeah, that was one of the most life changing experiences I've ever had is going through that school. And it's non traditional, clinical psychology, the degree that we did, it's very integrated, very spiritual, very holistic, very whole human and very forward thinking and the types of people that attracted, I was incredibly, I was in awe every day of the amount of people that came from diverse backgrounds, and I learned so much from them. And I'm excited to be able to grow stronger together with my friend and ex classmate. And I really do hope that you pull some helpful things out of this, we're gonna hear his story and try and humanise the reality of racism in the 21st century, going to explore the difference between white privilege and racism. What we can do to help lift up black brothers and sisters and do small acts to push society forward. How the Black Lives Matter movement extends beyond an issue of police brutality. We'll explore the incarceration issue issue and how there's so many layers that build up to perpetuate that perception or a perception and stigma over time. And also, one that I found really interesting is this child state that people can be trapped in after trauma. And Purvis talks about his reflections on how this has affected the black community and how it plays out in our present reality. Good to have you back. Many more episodes to come. And I look forward to talking with you in the next episode directly again, enjoy guys. I'm incredibly grateful that you've given up an hour of your time to have this chat with me. I know that there's so much going on at the moment and that you are a an amazing voice and carrier of the message, not just for black lives matter but I think for spirituality and mental health in the Intro, I mentioned that we went to university together and I had the privilege of watching, you go through a course like that. And we were like the mutant x men, I reckon like the amount of diversity that came into that class. And so I just want to paint a bit of a picture around who you are. So you grew up in New York. Now, I

Pervis Taylor:

grew up in Dallas, Texas, I grew up in Dallas. Yeah, I forgot

Mitch Wallis:

that that part. How is that that Dallas is awesome.

Pervis Taylor:

Dallas is Dallas is beautiful. Um, you know, I didn't really I have an appreciation for it much more now than I did when I was living there, obviously, hence why I left. Right, but um, ya know, Dallas is

Mitch Wallis:

a beautiful city, and people, and what age did you leave Dallas.

Pervis Taylor:

So I went to college, undergrad, University of Miami when I was 17. So I left when I was 17. And I haven't been back since. Okay, I mean, I go back to visit my family, but I haven't lived there since.

Mitch Wallis:

And what brought you to New York?

Pervis Taylor:

I'm originally so you know, I used to work in the music industry. Yeah, to work for dead, Jim. And that's what originally brought me to New York is that I wanted to be like this music executive. And then I got going, I transitioned into modelling and wanted to be this big actor and things like that. And then I kind of just like life, kicked me in such a way. And I and I experienced a deep, deep depression, a dark night of the soul, if you will. And it kind of brought me into the space of being a life coach, and in really finding my purpose in that.

Mitch Wallis:

Yeah. And so today, you are a full time life coach and mentor, you mentor. Everyone from I hate the word regular people, but people like me, and, you know, all the way through to celebrities and everything else. Yeah. Yeah. And what would you say your mission is in that business?

Pervis Taylor:

I will say is I want people to thrive. And I want you know, thriving is better than just doing okay, it's really operating at optimal levels. So whenever that is for you, I want that to I want you to achieve that.

Mitch Wallis:

What do you see some of the themes, obviously, with confidentiality and privacy? What do you see some of the themes of the clients that you speak to? What are things that people struggle with?

Pervis Taylor:

Well, you know, is like what we talked about, even in school, you know, people struggle with worth, yeah. And value and finding their voice. Yeah. And, and really, like, you know, it was so funny, I was talking to somebody, like I was saying, like, you know, achievement can be a sign of depression can be a response to trauma. And we think because someone is so successful, that means that they're good. That's not the case. And so a lot of people are like, you know, suppressing the trauma, not even acknowledging that they've been through a lot of things. So it's like, really that voice and that self worth and value. I would say that's the thing that runs across almost everyone. Male and female celebrity, you know, regular person, like that's,

Mitch Wallis:

that runs through. And and would you feel that, that that lack of self worth is coming from like, and and internalised parental voice like, Where's that coming from? Do you think?

Pervis Taylor:

I think I think a lot of times we are I mean, even for myself, like I think a lot of times we believe alive, when you believe something, the evidence of it shows up, right? Yeah, looking for something to be true. You find the evidence. And so I think a lot of us is just unlearning. Yeah, you know, a lot of beliefs and, and, and things that we thought were true, you know, like the fact that you came out of the womb and that you're here, you have fat. Yeah, you can man the whole and to live, to be loved and to thrive, that alone makes you valuable? Do you understand what I'm saying? And I think for us, we go through this thing of life and dysfunction, and, you know, pain and all those things like then we somehow take that on as an identity. It's like No, your identity is that you get to be old your identity is you get to be a human being. I think that's where it comes from we regardless of whatever the situation may be, I think a lot of us is just not until we

Mitch Wallis:

agree. And I think it's it's funny, you know, you call it belief. Another word for it is stories. A lot of suffering is just stories and beliefs that are inaccurate that we tell ourselves on repeat, right? And we never have the tools or the tactics to break that cycle or to challenge that narrative. And it sounds like you really help people dive into that belief system and challenge that narrative. Yeah, you know, it's

Pervis Taylor:

funny, like whenever I see a person, like when I saw you, I was like, This dude is a star. Oh, thank you that I told you that.

Mitch Wallis:

Thank you.

Pervis Taylor:

I always see people as their best self. And I've always been that way. Since I was a kid. So I think that's part of like the purpose of what I do. So it's like, I just see people the way that they don't see themselves. I see this image, you see it one day, imagine how your life is gonna change. So,

Mitch Wallis:

you've also got a gift for seeing potential, I guess, then, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you can hear that in the background, that's my dog scratching on the door, and I'm just gonna ignore her because eventually she'll go away. But she is she is relentless. That's one of her strengths. And yeah, talking about strengths, I think identifying people's strength is a real gift. And you have to be able to see through preconceived notions or judgement or perceptions. And, and it sounds like for you and I, and I really felt this with you that there was no separation of colour or whatever, or even country like I'm from Australia, there was like, you're you really get into someone's intrinsic value pretty quickly. How do you think you've been able to do that?

Pervis Taylor:

Well, I think that's best my faith system, you know, I'm a Christian. And that's part of it. Is this loving the person, the soul? Yeah, that this person is a spirit. And I do my best to try to do that. Because I have, you know, I have clients from all walks of life, like I have adult entertainers, as cotton. You know, people from all walks of life who've done you know, crazy things. And my thing is, I really put your human being your soul. And so that's when I'm tuning into that humanity. Yeah, that person. But I've had to, if I want to do this work of healing, I have to be that way.

Mitch Wallis:

Right. Right. And would you cause yourself as a healer?

Pervis Taylor:

You know, it's funny, so many people do. I don't, per se, but so many people do. Right? Yeah.

Mitch Wallis:

Wow. And tell me, what would you say is the the thing that lights you up the most?

Pervis Taylor:

When I get an email from a client, that maybe I haven't spoken to in a while, and they're telling me that they're doing good, um, and then like, makes me cry. Because I know, like, I just applaud the bravery. It takes bravery to be your best self. And it takes courage, yeah, to want to be better, you know, me. And, and when I see people just being brave, and exhibiting and put in implementing the tools and applying the tools that we come up with together. That just is overwhelming.

Mitch Wallis:

So so that's also within that. You're also seeing the success of your own self in the mentorship that you've given when you see someone that, you know, really turned the corner. And I know that that must feel amazing.

Pervis Taylor:

It does it. Like I said, he it really makes you cry. Because you're just like, Man, you think about how messed up you are as a person. And he's like, Man, I'm being used to help this person is just like it. It never gets old. I've been doing this for 10 years, it never gets old. Wow. That's a gift.

Unknown:

So

Mitch Wallis:

can you tell me your most cherished state doesn't need to be childhood be your most cherished memory today?

Pervis Taylor:

Guys, probably would be my dad CME, you know, graduate, undergrad, because that was like the last kind of like, the last time he saw me really achieve something. And, and, and he passed away, like not too far, long after that. So I think that was awesome. Because, you know, my father was a very complex man. You know, we think about it me and my siblings, we talk about it now. We probably we think that he was probably undiagnosed and bipolar. And didn't know it is because he was in Vietnam, and he, you know, PTSD, all those things. And when you think about how he just used to medicate himself and cope, and just the way he would exercises like, okay, something clearly was going on. But yeah, at the time, I didn't, I didn't know, been educated, and I've been in school, I can kind of look for those things. But All he wanted was for his kids to do better than him. You know what I mean? And in that moment, he was just so proud. Like, everywhere we went, he was like my son just graduated from college. It was just unnecessary. Because we drove from Miami once I graduated from Miami, back to Dallas, and it's like whenever you go to get fish, oh, yeah, man, I'm just here because, you know, my son just graduated. My daddy didn't need to know. He was just so cute. And it was just like, you know, your father's in your life. So you know, like the importance of having a father Then your life. So like this that, I would say, that's what came to me immediately who asked me that?

Mitch Wallis:

Yeah. And I want to pick up on that the father figure a bit later on, what would you say? And for whatever you're comfortable saying, what would you say is one of the hardest part on most traumatic memories that you have?

Pervis Taylor:

Man, I have many, I have many being made fun of in school, and, you know, being told I wasn't a man and you know, by girls, and, you know, because I was, I wasn't, I wasn't like, masculine, masculine growing up. And people used to emasculate me all the time. And remember, this girl was just saying, like, No woman would ever want to be with you, because you're not even a man, you're not even a boy. Like, it was just, you know, that stuff. Really, really hurt. Seeing my father, like, you know, strung out on heroin. The feeling of betrayal, you know, you would think somebody is your friend, and you find out they're not your friend. And, you know, they mean, like, so many things. him the last conversation, I had my father before he passed away from heroin overdose. And I kind of like, so I had a full conversation with him that he called me one day, he was like, really down. And I was like, in a rush to go somewhere. And I said, Dad, I can't tell right now. And then I was like, literally the last time I spoke to him the next time he was dead, you know. And I said to myself, man, if I just would have, you know, this taken an extra 510 minutes to speak to him, because he sounded down. Like it was obvious that he was down. And so that moment, I have many niche, honestly.

Mitch Wallis:

mean to me to hear. Yeah. And that's, it's super tough, because, you know, I hope that you've also worked through that, that story. Because, you know, it's so easy in the moment to be like, hey, life's happening right now. And we can't be on and perfect all the time. And who we used to know that that would be the last time you would speak to your father, but it's just such an unfortunate situation or circumstance, I just saw

Pervis Taylor:

is, it is, but it's also like, but I'm also of the mindset of not being a victim. And so even with my father, there's still a space in me that's like what they're used to could have made a different choice. Like, you know what I mean? So like, I'm very, I strike up, I try to strike a balance with it. Mm hmm. If there's a, you know, that we know of studies of people who've cured themselves of schizophrenia. Yeah, you know, me there, there's so much, we're so empowered, that we can change our narratives, right? And so there is a space for me that, that has, I have complete peace with him being gone. But I often say to myself, I wonder if, if someone just would have told him that he could change his narrative, that doesn't have to be his story? What what would have happened? Like who he would be today? You know what I mean? I think about that, but then also just like, well, that's a choice he made. And I have to accept that. Yeah.

Mitch Wallis:

I love the fact that we're talking about narratives. And I also love how, how balanced you are at seeing a narrative. Can I can I hear a little bit about where in your narrative? Have you experienced racism personally, and and if we can put it into three different buckets? A small example? So like, maybe crossing the street, a medium and then a severe example?

Pervis Taylor:

Um, I don't know if I have. Okay, I will say this probably a minor One was that I had. So I grew up in Texas we have I don't know if you guys have this in Australia, but we have gifted and talented programme. The I have that. Yeah. So we had a gifted and talented programme. And they didn't let any black people into the content of the programme, even though Wow. And I had the grades. And I had to fight my way to get into get an accountant. And this is like, I'm in the fourth grade. nine years old fighting. And and it was obvious that they were like the first black boy and gifted and talented. Yeah, I mean, because I had to fight and advocate for myself. I was like, I knew I had the grades. I knew I tested well, and this is nine years old. And I was like, there's no reason for me to not be in the gifted and talented programme. So obviously, that's a minor one. A medium one just being caught a nigga. firewalkers people for you. Wow, that's Wow. Okay. And I would say a major one. being pulled over in Texas. I've had some here in New York. I don't drive here. So that's why my experience with cops in New York is kind of a different type of racism. Like it's weird, but obviously obvious being pulled over in Texas and having Six cops pull you over, tell like, Oh shit. Yeah, yeah, all of them drawing their guns on me, Pac Man. And the thing that got me out was the fact that I was in college. And I and I had my college I need Wow, a

Mitch Wallis:

bit of vulnerability from my side before we move on. My goal of this interview is to a help see the world in the light of Purvis Taylor, that is a bright one, and be to help re educate particularly white people on the reality of racism. And I think that icon you know, one of the main ways I know how to be a beacon of change is to a get really really smart, vulnerable people to tell stories and be tell stories of my own money my first when all this stuff really blew up with the Black Lives Matter movement. I found it super interesting that my first gut reaction was that What do you mean, racism doesn't exist anymore. Like That was my honestly as shameful as that is, that was my first reaction. Because I'm like, and I never saw that as privilege. I just saw that it is I honestly saw it as factual I'm, I've lived in New York, I've lived in Seattle, I've lived in Australia, I have lots of black friends. I've never heard someone use the N word. I've never looked at someone differently because of the colour of their skin. From what I know, there's equal opportunities at jobs. And then, like, looking back on that now I'm like, Whoa, that was ignorant. And how has how has made like the most educated white male, like who has had all the opportunities? How can I still be ignorant? And it's only within the inquiry that I've spent over the last few weeks being like, this is alive and well, in a bunch of areas. And that it's what I've found, the most important thing is to get into the heartbeat of it, because you can you can look at the stats, you can look at all that and get a get an you know, obvious occurrence of it. But it's when you hear the personal stories of people that you think, wow. And this this is, you know, rooted so much deeper than just things that happened on the street with police. This is like generationally, the trauma has never really healed from slavery and incarceration and everything. Yeah. And that we're just seeing this play out from small manifestations on the surface. Right.

Pervis Taylor:

Exactly. Yeah. Very good. Very, very good. Okay, so it is it's funny, my my mom, who grew up, she's a she marched with Dr. Kane. Wow. And for her, she just kind of like, this is always been happening with this because we have cameras on our phones. Mm hmm. You know what I mean? Like, it's been happening. And even to me, even for me, right? I grew up in Texas, growing up in the south, where that's kind of like, almost kind of like the norm. For me. It didn't trigger me as much as it does. Other people, because I, unfortunately, I'm accustomed to this. Right. You know what I mean? So it was like, it's like, really again, like, you know, I mean, I'm just like, yeah, I'm just tired. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. How

Mitch Wallis:

would you describe the difference between white privilege and racism?

Pervis Taylor:

Um, I would guess interesting. That's a good question. I would say that white privilege is kind of like, knowing that you're going like, not even consider, like this literally living in a willful ignorance, right? Like, just kind of like you're just oblivious to certain things happening, right. Racism is like, being and having an awareness that that of another person's race, and you purposely choosing to mistreat them.

Mitch Wallis:

Roger that. Yeah, that makes sense. So white privilege is an ignorance of the advantages that you have without inquiry or questioning and racism might be the intentional choice to look badly or treat others badly based on the colour of their skin.

Pervis Taylor:

Yes.

Mitch Wallis:

What do you think is more and this might sound like a silly question, but I'm genuinely interested. What do you think is more of like, an actual material threat at the moment to black people? Is it white privilege or racism?

Pervis Taylor:

I will say both, um, our inner and I say that I will tell you this was a little brief. So, I was, they were filming, they were doing a TV show on me. And I was working with people from all walks of life. Because they weren't, it was kind of like, I don't know, fix my life. And it was kind of like, you know, I had I didn't know these people, we were just talking. And this man, I'll never forget this this despite man, I forgot his name. But he was telling me this story about how he understood racism for the first time or his white privilege for the first time and racist systemic racism and his white privilege. So he was saying that it was a woman, a black woman who applied for the same job as her. Right? And she was going to be doing the same amount of work. And he said that they were going to pay her $20,000 a year, less than him. And they were doing the same amount of work, the same job. And it wasn't based off seniority, it was just based off of economy. And he said, he said, he was so confused. He was like, Why is she getting $20,000? Less than me? And no one can give him an answer. And he said, like, you know, when I, and he was saying to me, he's like, person when I go into a job I've never, you know, and obviously, he's a man too. So we got to add that part on to it, you know, being a man and obviously female dynamic, but he was never, ever a question about my words. I've never even had to even consider that I'm being cheated on, on, you know, salary and things like that. And he said, he told the woman to not take the job. Wow. And that's what he said he had an awareness that he had a privilege over her. Right. And he understood racism in a way that he never understood it before.

Mitch Wallis:

And so what do we do? And when we realise, I think Step one is to become aware of our privilege. And then step two, how do we change that?

Pervis Taylor:

I think what he did was powerful. He told her not to take the job. He was with her. He told her what happened. And I think my thing is, look, I think for a lot of black people, I think we don't want we just want you guys to use your voice. If you see Brian say something, literally do you like Mrs. You like your purposes don't for that job. Y'all need to pay him what he's worth. I think purpose is incredible. I think he's better than this dude, who you guys are coming up with? That's what I want you to do. You know, me? and injustice, like, I know this, this person is being mistreated? Can we have a town hall meeting? Can we just use your voice?

Mitch Wallis:

Yeah. Okay, that's a great, that's a great single call to action, which is use that privilege. Use that platform. And it doesn't need to necessarily be big fundraisers, or donations, or whatever the biggest thing is, those micro interactions. If you see an injustice or inequality, do something,

Pervis Taylor:

it's like me, and you, right? You and I are both attractive men, we're going to get certain things based on how we look. Right? And if I know that I'm going to be able to get into a spot and I know my friend may not necessarily may not have I hate saying that the attraction that I have, I'm going to make sure that he gets in, right. And so it's the same thing. It's like, if you can't get if I can get it to the party, I will I will pull you into the party. That's what we want.

Mitch Wallis:

So it's like pulling each other along. It's it's using, it's using that that wherever we are in whatever walk of life pulling each other along at the same speed.

Pervis Taylor:

Yeah, yeah. And literally just like, you know, like, like, I like I think Mitch is dope at this. If I think that Mitch is dope, or is something then this person, I'm not going to because y'all want me to hire this person. I'm going to heart bitch. Mm hmm. the right person for the job, like, you know, me, like it's that type thing.

Mitch Wallis:

And I think that, that it's not just doing the right thing. It's doing the right thing, even when it's hard,

Pervis Taylor:

even when it's hard and no one's looking. Yeah, yeah. Even when it's a threat to you. And that's a huge, we know this in the in the spaces like integrity is who you are when no one's looking. Yeah, I

Mitch Wallis:

like that. How do we how do we make sure that the more people are doing that, so that when someone stands up for someone in public, they don't get left alone, that other people stand up on the bus or in the club or on the sporting arena and go, Hey, no, I'm with him or her? Like, that's fucked. Don't say that shit.

Pervis Taylor:

You know, I think the problem would, you know, I think the problem of it is, is that we don't have empathy. Right. And I think a lot of everybody's listening, and everybody's listening to be understood versus listening to understand. Yes, it's different, right? Yeah. I think it really boils down to that place of humanity. And that empathy, we all we all know what injustice feels like. Yep. Right. And so it's really tapping into those spaces of light. But imagine that person feels what you meant, and just as you felt they feel that all the time and they still have to keep living. I'm going I'm saying so it's about Have you ever seen the movie atomic kill? I haven't. No. Okay, so are you familiar with the D? No, no. Okay. So, so movie, Matthew McConaughey, Samuel Jackson, and it takes place in Mississippi, and is based on a john Grisham novel. And it's like a black girl gets raped by some white supremacists. Right. And at the end of the movie, he has all the all the jury closer eyes, and the juries all white, of course, and he has them telling them a story. And he's just talking about a little girl getting raped. And he said, Imagine if that was your daughter. And they are you saw the tears coming out people's eyes. And he appealed to the empathy within them runs what Samuel Jackson's character was found not guilty for, you know, for retaliating against the people that rape his child. But I think a part of it is really us getting beyond ourselves, and being wrong and willing to be wrong, and really just tapping into that space of like, Yo, I really want to understand this. I don't want to have my preconceived notions about this, I really just want to understand this and really tapping into that vulnerable space, this space that we have to get to

Mitch Wallis:

Yeah, and I totally relate to that sentiment in that the part that I can feel in my body, when through all this is the frustration, because as I start to drop my white privilege mall, and as I start to get more curious, I start to really get into that empathetic mode of being like, Oh, fuck, that must be annoying just being like, I would want my rights defended, or I would want someone to understand my perspective. And it would just be that much harder than what it already is for someone to understand you or defend you or whatever, man that's just like permanently having a white vest on when you're climbing up the hill. And everyone else is expected to walk at the same speed, but they don't have a weight vest on. And it's like the white vest can't be seen. So everyone's like, why are you walking slower, and it's like, bro, you can't see underneath this jacket that I'm wearing is this fucking white vest.

Pervis Taylor:

Exactly. And that's it, it really that's the thing is like we saw somebody that was like, you know, and that's where the mental health component comes in with it, right, which is makes it even more challenging because you have to win this COVID space, you have to here in America, people of colour are disproportionately affected by COVID, when anybody because most of the time, we're the essential workers and grocery stores and all those things. You just try to be a human being. So as a human being, you have your own issues, right? And then you got this COVID thing happening where you're disproportionately affected, but you have this whole other layer of racism. So then it's like, the grief becomes complicated. We've all experienced grief. Right? All of us have experienced grief before. But imagine, you can't even get to the thing that's really, really hurting you. Because you're just trying to make it. You're just trying to find survival to make it in this world. Yeah, that you're gonna meet. So that's why the mental health is mental health crisis. And African American community is so high, because we ain't even been able to get to us, right? Make it through all the other stuff.

Mitch Wallis:

Right. So it's almost just like this. This way of dealing has been purely survival and band aiding. And there's this broken bone underneath that you're trying to get to.

Pervis Taylor:

Yes, yeah. And that's the challenge. And even still, within that space, it was I say, you know, life is still happening from us, we still can't create, we still can become we still can be run by people. So dynamic, ladies. Because of that. We beat the odds of all the things that have happened, we still have we still show up. Yeah. And now it's like, tapping into that again. And that's and again, that space is the space that I tap into with all my clients. Right? Yeah. That higher self. Yes, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mitch Wallis:

So can I, can I ask you four hard questions that I believe will will help people who do who are lagging on this white privilege and who are lagging on this racism? see another perspective, because that's really important. And I think we have to ask the hard questions. So what would you say to particularly a white person who says George Floyd's incident was police brutality, not racism?

Pervis Taylor:

I would say to them, Well, what about all the videos of white people punching cops, even pulling guns on them? being disrespectful to the cops, and they walk away in handcuffs, dylann roof, shout out nine black people in a church and they took him to get Burger King. Afterwards, you know me, that's what that's what I would say.

Mitch Wallis:

Right. So so it's that it's not an isolated incident. There is that there is definite racial differences within the police brutality sector. But also, I think part of that is that racism is happening outside of just systemic police brutality. It's happening on the street. Is that true?

Pervis Taylor:

Yes. Absolutely, it's, um, you know, going into it, but going into like a high end store and being followed around, right? You got me and I can buy, I can afford to get whatever, you know. Or even if I can't, I'm so happy to be in this. Yeah. Yeah, like heavy, heavy debt. That shit is annoying. You know what I mean? So it's like, yeah.

Mitch Wallis:

Alright, so on that. And again, there's only this level of trust between us that allows me to ask these questions. So there's this perception in the black community that there is this criminal perception that follows them everywhere. And I think that the statistics from what I read one in 17 one and 17 people in prison are white one in three, black, which is fucking crazy. How could you what happens if a white person says yeah, but that's just because black people commit more crimes than white people.

Pervis Taylor:

And I guess my response to that will be that, but that's the so layered. Because it is, you think about you think about the a lot of black people are in jail. So many black people have been released from jail from DNA evidence, right, who've been accused falsely accused of situations. Right. There's that right. Then there's also the inequities in, in the justice system. So a person there are literally people in jail for having an ounce of weed. Right. You know what I'm saying? And versus other people, other kids who get to go to rehab as opposed to going to jail being criminalised? Yeah, it was like it. That's a very layered layer question. Are there by criminals? Of course there are. They're white, they're Muslim, because that's this a segment of that in every race and culture. But to really, but you really got that set in the criminal justice system here in America. Like there are inequities like obvious inequities. There's a woman, the same thing that guy George Floyd offered, killing Trayvon Martin, this woman's have used that same defence, her husband was beating her a black woman. He was beating her and she uses standard ground law. She's still in jail. And he was a beating her proven he was beating her using them saying so what worked for one didn't work for another Florida. Yeah. So yeah, there. You know, that's a very layered question. And, and so my thing is like, you have equity, if you rape somebody, everybody got to go to jail for you know, like, or whatever that is. There shouldn't be there shouldn't be some, the guy, the guy that I'm in Stanford, the white guy that raped the girl that was drug, he got six months, and he got to go home. You see, I'm saying like, they caught him raping the girl in Stanford. And so like, there's a lot of, there's a lot of inequity. So with that question, I would be like me, I can take it piece by piece. Yep,

Mitch Wallis:

yep. And it's And to your point around the layers, there's also a layer, which is there is a whole cake that sits underneath that of decade's worth of context as to why black people are committing more crimes. And a lot of that, unfortunately, you can trace back to the fact that they've had their rights suppressed for for a long time and also the stealing of wealth.

Pervis Taylor:

Yes, yeah. Black Wall Street. And you know, epigenetics, like the trauma pass, right? genetics is very real. So like, thank you for bringing it up. That's absolutely right. Like we have the strongest dollar in this country. We have the strongest dollar in America. Wow.

Mitch Wallis:

And and yeah, there's there is the you know, question is so hard to answer so cleanly, because there's so much context that doesn't get brought up usually. Yeah.

Pervis Taylor:

And

Mitch Wallis:

okay, so another another tough question. Black on black crime is I've heard someone says to me, black on black crime, kills more deaths than police brutality does in any given year. How can we say black lives matter if they don't believe it themselves?

Pervis Taylor:

Right. And so the thing is black on black heart black on black crime is a term you know, that's been developed to identify that because they don't say white on white crime. Right. And you know, I mean, because by and large, white people are killed by white people. And I think that's a true for every every race race. Yeah. What it is, is really a crime of proximity. Right? And so if you if you have people in a certain sector, and everyone has the same mentality, and it's like a FIFO territory, and it's really about the lower self, and really, that's the space that you're tuned into, that's going to happen. Right? So it is. And there's also people who haven't been in tune with their humanity. I think across the board. I think a lot of times it's a lot of ignorance and a lot of an education. It's it's a layered thing. But I don't like the term black on black crime, because that's a white on white crime. We don't say Mexican or Mexican crime, we just say crime is a crime. Those are crimes of proximity

Mitch Wallis:

of territory. And do you think that if we change some of this systemic issues in the justice system in the wealth system, in the emotional reconciliation system, that we would see reductions in black on black crime?

Pervis Taylor:

I think so. Yeah. So I definitely, I definitely think and and here's the thing, some people don't want to don't want to be enlightened some people, some people, right, they were they are right. And so we add a fact that I didn't too sure, but I do think, but I do think if people had a sense of awareness, then you become responsible. I think a lot of people don't know, you know, you have to think not everybody. I come from Lancaster, Texas, which is, you know, a country town outside of Dallas. I had an awareness in me that there was more, but there are people who still live in Lancaster To this day, this made me better than them. It just means that I had an awareness that there was more to life, right? They are still in Lancaster. And maybe, maybe just now they might have this awareness that life could have been different for them, you know, to me, but, you know, again, I go back to the space of responsibility, like once you become aware of something new, you're responsible. Yeah, when somebody shows you something, then you're like, oh, shoot, now I'm responsible for how I show up and move from that space.

Mitch Wallis:

Yeah. And that responsibility can be, can be overwhelming sometimes. For a lot of people, because they're like, well, I'm empowered my life. I don't want this I can go back to being not empowered. And

Pervis Taylor:

exactly. And I think a lot of times, even with, you know, young men who didn't grow up without their fathers who are not fathers themselves. And it's like, they're amazing fathers. Now I say, You know why you're an amazing father, because you had to imagine something that you didn't see that for you. And so if we can do that, if you can break the cycle of being, you know, quote, unquote, an absentee Father, why can we break the cycle of showing, you know, to me, of willful ignorance, or we can break tackles of anything? Right, right,

Mitch Wallis:

right. And from the research that I've done over the last few weeks in wanting to proactively as much as possible, break down my work privilege and become anti racist, which I believe I am. But really, and truly validate that I've done, I've noticed that a lack of a father figure in an African American household, even Barack Obama has said this time and time, again, is a huge issue that needs to be addressed.

Pervis Taylor:

Right. Absolutely. And the thing is, and also to, you know, even in terms of the inequities, even with mental health, right, just enough for one second, definitely, like black men and black boys exhibit depression different than any other demographic. Mm hmm. Right. And so black men were typically the emotions that black men are comfortable resting in our anger and indifference. And those are easier to harness than to say hurt, disappointment. And a lot of that is because they had an expectation that wasn't met, and they had an expectation of their fathers being in their lives and their fathers weren't in their lives. And so that that is a pain. And when you don't know how to deal with an emotion, or you've been traumatised at an early age emotionally if you don't deal with it, you're still that age. Yeah, you know me. So what we have is that we have a lot of men, not even just black men, we have a lot of men who are walking around who are maybe six years old emotionally in certain areas. And so if you don't even know that you're going to look at everything like a child you do something to me I'm hit you back You hit me I'll meet you back Are you just me I'm gonna kill you. You're gonna meet like that? Yeah. Yeah.

Mitch Wallis:

Yeah. Wow, that makes a lot more sense when you when you frame it like that, that the community can be stuck in this child like state because of trauma. How do we how do we get more black dads to stay around?

Pervis Taylor:

Well, I definitely think you know, I actually talked to a lot of black fathers even though I'm not a father myself. I get them to a space to talk about their fears and and and their emotions around. A lot of A lot of black if you you should watch red Table Talk Jada Pinkett show. And Will Smith he talks about being a father he cries about how how his father was so hard on him. And when he had his first child, he loses like, I'm not this guy. I can't do it. I can't do it. Yeah. Wow. And, and I think a lot of men feel that way. You know, they feel like, and also to as a man, and I think this is universal, we measure ourselves and output, measure ourselves and what we achieve, how much money we make, and things like that, if you're not doing it, any of those things, then where do you find your value? Where do you find your worth? Right? Right. And when you don't understand when somebody did it to you, and you know, you think it turned out, okay, you think that's gonna be okay, too. And then I recognise that you have this Shame on you on top of that, right? So you're dealing in a place of shame. And so when you have saying, you just want to be really just one away from everything. You don't want to front confront anything, you just want to go be willfully ignorant. So I just, I create spaces for men, for black men, to get into what their humanity I recently I spoke to a group of fathers earlier this year, and one young man, he his first Father's Day he went his father's and tell him a Happy Father's Day. And I guess that his father was expecting him to call him and whatever it was, they ended up not calling gentle father, his father ended up passing away. This man was 45 years old Mitch, he started breaking down crying, because he just wanted to hear how these vlogs from his father. Wow. And so like, there's so many men who are harbouring and holding on to that pain. And when you don't know how to deal with it, when you can't even name what it is you're experiencing? You're going to, you're going to choose the easier option.

Mitch Wallis:

Yeah, because you've never been shown how. And I think that that that's the breaking of the cycle is that we need to help we particularly white people need to help create the conditions where the black community feels respected, financially supported, secure, everything empowered, really, so that they can use that platform to heal and not have to pass down trauma onto their children be present, look at their demons, all that stuff. And I think so. So why people do play a role a big role in supporting the black family and the black father figure staying in the home.

Pervis Taylor:

Yeah. And I always say that heal communities start with heal individuals. Yeah. And so we have to, you know, and that's the work that I do I and again, I think is much bigger than that. When I was talking to you about it. I'm not recognising that I'm actually wanting to create better families. Yeah, families in doing that in by having the men process and deal with their emotions and teaching them how to process.

Mitch Wallis:

Yeah, sorry, my mom is walking into a podcast recording. Between you was gushing about a million times before.

Unknown:

Are you drinking? Yeah, sorry. No worries. So,

Mitch Wallis:

so many good discussions. And I also not that we have time to talk about it now. But I think the point you raised earlier that I didn't eat on enough was that, you know, you said someone was in jail for an ounce of weed, something that has helped me destroy my work privileges in researching how we move from slavery to incarceration, largely through the modality of drugs. And that was like the legal way to slip to put people are slaves. And now ironically, it's fucking legalised marijuana.

Pervis Taylor:

That and that is so crazy. Yeah. People are in jail still to this day in most states, and now we just legalise.

Mitch Wallis:

Right? Right. So I think that's a massive, massive, massive problem. I also think that the crack epidemic not you know, people don't know enough about that, like, I read that. info for powder for powder cocaine, you needed like seven times the amount of powder to get put in jail for the same thing when it comes to crack. So that was obviously targeting the black community because of affordability. And so yeah, like I think the injustice is in terms of sentencing for the for the drug use of affordability between cracking and normal cocaine. So yeah, I think when people look beneath the surface, they see all these things that look lawful but one and has resulted in decades of systematic racism. And so a few couple questions before we end. Do you think I've seen a lot of shaming tactics going on and to be honest, it really hit me hard that I was petrified to even have this discussion with you, let alone post anything on social media because it was like a minefield is a minefield, and I've only been able to be this comfortable because you've allowed it. People,

Pervis Taylor:

you know, when your emotions are running high. My my business part, obviously, is when emotions run high intelligence runs low. Yeah. And when you are in a very highly charged emotional state, you're not, no one's thinking, Oh, Mitch is just trying to figure it out. Oh, I know him or even taking the time. Like, I know who Mitch is, and blah, blah, blah, we're just going off, they're running off the heightened emotion. And while I understand that, there's also a space that sometimes we, we do need to take time to process so we can have a formula, you know, a form of thought, and be able to contextualise what it is that we're feeling and experiencing. And that takes time to process. Yeah. And, and, and I didn't put me up anything immediately. And I'm black, you know, yeah, if anything immediately because literally, people are calling me left and right one to do talks and wanted me to do workshops and things like that. I have clients, I've always say, I really had time to believe and process what happened to me. Yeah, I'm sure there are a segment of people who thought the same thing about me, oh, you're black, and you're posting about this. Not knowing that, not knowing that it hurt me very viscerally. I felt very viscerally seeing, you know, seeing a man die. And as well as mama like that, that traumatised me, Tammy? Yeah. But just because I didn't post by doesn't mean that it didn't affect me. You know, now I'm able to speak about it more, actually. Because I've had time to process and really wanted to formulate my words and really get my thoughts together around it.

Mitch Wallis:

Right. And that's when it's more well, it can be more powerful when that happens.

Pervis Taylor:

Yeah, absolutely. And again, you know, this is the work that I do. So, again, just re emphasising the point that, you know, as black men as black people, we life is still happening from us. And so even in this space of what seems like hopelessness is always still hope. And if we didn't have that, we wouldn't be where we are today, in terms of the things that we've achieved as, as bad people. There has to be hope, yet and still warming in, in in the spaces.

Unknown:

So if you were to wave a magic wand, this is a short question, but I'm just trying to get into like the heart of it. And what what is the greatest one for the black community? What would that look like?

Pervis Taylor:

Man, for me, obviously, I'm gonna be I'm gonna consider I mean, racism is part of it. But I will want for us as black community to like really dismantle the effects of slavery within ourselves, like within Hmm. And I want us to really be whole and really confront and really have those deep conversations. Those uncomfortable conversations about molestation. I was molested. You know, this is really, this is really just healing as people. Cuz I think regardless of what is happening outside of us, if your whole as a person, if you are, you feel like you're operating at your best, you'll be able to fight anything, we can be uniform we could be, we can unite like Voltron. You know, I mean, like Power Rangers and form like this big thing and really make it happen. So for me, it would be more so about us healing and healing the traumas of slavery, healing the traumas of just, you know, the things that we've experienced as people.

Mitch Wallis:

It's so interesting that you'll want for a better society, and from what I understand has been as much of a inter community as in what the black community can do for itself as it is what you want white people and other people to do for the black community. It's a very empowered place.

Pervis Taylor:

Yeah. Because I, because I think being whole and having peace is the best thing you can you can ever be. Yeah,

Unknown:

yeah. And that and that can start internally. That starts internally. Yeah. Yeah. What's,

Mitch Wallis:

what's three things you want white people? Or maybe let's start here? What's one thing you want a white person or people outside of your community to know that will help end racism and the same? What's one thing you want white people to do that will help end racism?

Pervis Taylor:

Well, I would say so. I would say just like, you want a life of freedom and liberty, and to live and to dream and to operate in your purpose. That's what we want to do. That's what I would say to them. What a second question. I'm sorry.

Mitch Wallis:

What do you want them to do? So that was no What do you want them to do? What one or two things?

Pervis Taylor:

Um, again, I just want to when you see an injustice when you know, you have a leg up on something. Open the door. Yep.

Mitch Wallis:

Open the door

Pervis Taylor:

if you see if you know some if you know something, you know a hookup you know certain a Mamiya hookup if you know something to say something that's, that's it. Yeah.

Mitch Wallis:

To be an advocate use your voice to be an advocate for quality. And also action when you see inequality.

Pervis Taylor:

Yeah, it really more so action. Yeah. You know I mean like because they love you but it's not that you don't look the actions. They love you. Yeah. But it's really about the action is really about you know having those things marry together obviously but really just the action man like if you like I said, if you know that this person is the right person for it, like make that happen. Like even with the companies right? I was saying you know this great to say you know, it's like feels like a social media moment like to say Black Lives Matter. But, bro, change your executive boards, make them more diverse. You know what I mean? Like? Like, that's action to me, not just the don't like how you said donation. Read it. We don't turn on donations. But really to change the system of it. You got to change the right the people who are constructing the system. Right so that's that's what you know,

Mitch Wallis:

got it and resources for people to break down their white privilege. You sent me two nations. the book by Andrew hacker which is black and white, separate, hostile, unequal. So check that out. Everyone. The what are the videos or books would you recommend?

Pervis Taylor:

Oh, man, um, my cousin she sent me. I was doing this. And she said tell me. So my cousin she's an African Americans. studies professor. Amazing. So she has a whole laundry list. I can send it to you.

Mitch Wallis:

Yeah. Cool. It'd be great

Pervis Taylor:

books and things and documentaries. sylia PBS documentary i think i sent to you. Yeah, thank you actually like that. Okay, cool. Yay.

Mitch Wallis:

I want to put it on the show notes or somewhere that we can empower because I know that some of the feedback I've got from my, my back friends has been don't just ask us. Also do your own research. And so I want you to know that I'm not just being lazy by asking you I want you to know that I'm invested in my own time to figuring this out. And I think we all should be as white people. Yeah,

Pervis Taylor:

bro. Listen, let me say something you you know i you're really dope person and you made my my college experience my graduate school experience worthwhile. So thanks, man. I'm happy to see you and even ask me to do this with you.

Mitch Wallis:

100% man, I'm super proud of being able to bring you know our friendship and our relationship from student into actually doing stuff that matters in podcasts like this. Yeah, really, really appreciate the time man and hopefully some people get a lot out of it.